9 comments

  • hackthemack 3 hours ago
    I prefer the full quote by Douglas Adams.

    I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:

    1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.

    2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.

    3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.

    • slillibri 1 hour ago
      I don't know about number 3. As a 53 year old Gen X'er, I still haven't come across things that see against the natural order. The main things I don't understand are things like the Humane AI pin, which didn't seem against the natural order, I just didn't see the appeal or usefulness of it. Maybe it just doesn't seem like there is much new being invented.
      • cgriswald 1 hour ago
        I think that if the pattern exists, it is strongly muted for GenX because everything we are seeing (and more) was virtually promised to be here “any day now” during the hay day of science fiction media. If anything, 2026 in the real world isn’t futuristic enough compared to what was “supposed” to have happened by now.
        • _carbyau_ 22 minutes ago
          >hay day of science fiction media

          I played Shadowrun. I am both disappointed but mostly glad it is not happening according to that game universe history! I do want cool cybereyes though...

      • munificent 1 hour ago
        > I still haven't come across things that see against the natural order.

        So many people these days spend hours watching short-form videos spray endlessly from a screen while they stare dumbly at it. They aren't even picking which videos to watch, just letting the algorithm do it.

        Every time I see someone doing that, I just absolutely cannot relate to what's going on in their head at all. I'm certainly not above watching some YouTube, but the complete mindlessness of it, they watch it goes on forever, and the utter stupidity of the videos. I feel like I'm watching zombies in an opium den.

        But billions of people are doing that shit every day, so what do I know?

        • delecti 1 hour ago
          I don't want to defend short-form video feeds too much, but "They aren't even picking which videos to watch" is overstating it. Essentially nobody behaves like: watch 100% of a video, swipe, watch 100%, swipe. The expected behavior is that you swipe away if you're not interested, which is often done within a fraction of a second. Accordingly, Tiktok's content selection algorithm heavily weighs watch time as a signal of interest in related content. That actually can create a bit of a perverse incentive; if you linger on a video long enough to report it (as in for a TOS violation) or to click the "show less like this", it can lead to being shown more videos like that.

          In many ways, TikTok is kinda like channel surfing. Watch a few seconds, next channel, watch a few seconds, next channel, oh this is interesting, sure I'll watch a "How It's Made" marathon.

          • dylan604 31 minutes ago
            > In many ways, TikTok is kinda like channel surfing.

            I've been making the same comparison as well. As someone not watching the videos yet still hear the videos being played, the constant switching is very noticeable much like being the one in the room that didn't have the clicker in their hand. You're not in control of the constant switching which I think makes it even that much more annoying.

            Rather than just parking on the marathon, choosing to turn it off and do something else entirely is still my preferred "old man yells at clouds" option.

        • torben-friis 32 minutes ago
          >They aren't even picking which videos to watch, just letting the algorithm do it.

          As a teenager, I used to torrent content I liked and scoff at my parents generation for letting tv feed then slop :)

          It's hard to understand why TikTok is addictive from the outside, precisely because if you look at the app over someone's shoulder you'll see their tailored content, not yours.

          Give the algorithm a couple weeks and it WILL find the weird thing that gets you to check. Maybe you find someone restoring books relaxing, or like toy commercials from where you were a kid, or are attentive on news of potential pandemics out of fear. It will learn.

    • aleph_minus_one 29 minutes ago
      I disagree with

      > 1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.

      > 2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.

      > 3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.

      My experience is rather that early in your life you get "imprinted" with specific values, and then you judge technology by how it fits these values:

      For example, I was "imprinted" against surveillance since I was born in West Germany, and people were telling me what evil surveillance stuff the Stasi does in "the other Germany (GDR)". Also I deeply detested authorities (I was likely born this way), and thus got attracted to hacking.

      Thus, for example:

      I already heard about the internet early in my life (from magazines) - say, when I was 8 years old - but I actually saw how people organized stuff "offline" against what I would consider "how the world naturally works" (believe it or not).

      Smartphones were invented when I was between 15 and 35, but I immediately saw them as surveillance bugs. The same holds for the advent of social networks.

      On the other hand, 3D printing got mainstreamed later than when I was 35, but I immediately got in love with it, and couldn't wait the day until 3D printing got more reliable and I earned enough money to get a 3D printer, since 3D printers fit my values very well.

      So, in my experience it is typically not about the year when something was invented, but rather about whether the invention is a good or bad fit for the values that you were shaped with in your early life.

    • zoogeny 2 hours ago
      This feels apt in more than just science/technology. It matches my experience with culture as well, e.g. music and movies.
      • dylan604 28 minutes ago
        I knew I was officially old when I had to start trying to decipher what a teen was saying to me. All of the words were spoken in the language I speak, all of the words were heard by me, but their use of those words were not a use I was familiar.
      • marcosdumay 1 hour ago
        It's way more apt with culture than with science or technology.

        The lack of patience from adults for learning the byzantine interfaces companies were making in the last quarter of the 20th century got generalized to a ridiculous degree.

      • the__alchemist 2 hours ago
        I feel like many younger people still listen to music from the 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s etc, as an exception (?)
        • degamad 1 hour ago
          That's in the rule - for them it's "just a natural part of the way the world works".
    • dylan604 42 minutes ago
      As for 3, I think by the time you're in that age bracket, you've seen enough to not be fooled as much by the marketing so that a sale from a brochure alone is much less likely. Take the crypto fad as an example. To me, it was obvious that the "good" use would be limited and by far exceeded by the "bad" use. Current AI hype train is leading me in the same direction as nothing has quite lived up to what's printed on the tin. It just has that same icky pump&dump feel. At least AI has a some products that have a wider range of use than crypto
    • somewhatgoated 2 hours ago
      It’s pretty damn accurate in my case.
  • analog31 2 hours ago
    >>> It was the Nobel laureate and quantum physicist Max Planck who wrote that “science advances one funeral at a time” (which is actually a somewhat artful translation of his original statement, in German) about revered gatekeepers and their nostalgia for insights past that keep leaps in scientific understanding from happening. Turns out, he may have been right.

    Or he may have been wrong. I think it was Paul Feyerabend who showed that most paradigms (yes, including that one) of how science works are falsified by counterexamples in scientific history and practice.

    We love to make a discovery seem like a triumph against evil and obstruction, and sometimes it happens, but sometimes it's just a discovery.

    Disclosure: Old scientist.

  • Animats 3 hours ago
    Einstein spent his later career trying to reconcile general relativity and quantum mechanics. He failed. So has everyone after him. It's not about Einstein being old. It's that it's a really hard problem.
    • jampekka 3 hours ago
      TFA also refers to just Einstein's 1905 papers. He published general relativity 10 years later. And after GE he contributed e.g. stimulated emission, Bose-Einstein statistics, Einstein-de Sitter cosmological model and the EPR paradox, among lots of other stuff.

      Also the claim "toward the tail end of Einstein’s life, he argued strenuously against the concepts undergirding the emerging field of quantum mechanics" downplays that Einstein was pivotal in emerging the field in the first place.

      • MathMonkeyMan 1 hour ago
        Seeing what came later with gauge theories and more speculative stuff like loop quantum gravity, you can't blame Einstein for thinking that the theory of everything might take the form of a set of field equations for a connection. Math was just too hard, and the answer probably doesn't look like that after all.
      • renox 2 hours ago
        Yes and being 'opposed' to QM contributed to expose the 'spooky action at distance' that QM implies, which is very important.. It's a pity that experimentators were able to demonstrate it only a long time after Einstein's death, what would have been his reaction??
        • tim333 30 minutes ago
          I'm sure he would have found it interesting.
      • hunterpayne 1 hour ago
        "downplays that Einstein was pivotal in emerging the field in the first place."

        Indeed, its a pretty easy case to make the Einstein has more to do with QM as it currently exists than Bohr does. The major interesting work on QM after the 1960s or so is entirely dependent upon Einstein's work on QM and locality. The entire narrative in fact comes from Bohr's hissy fit after Einstein pointed out that QM is non-local and that seems very wrong.

    • hunterpayne 1 hour ago
      It should be pointed out that the math of spinning black holes which Einstein needed to reconcile GR and QM wasn't discovered/invented until the 1980s. And we still haven't really checked to see if he was on to something. A big part of this is that the young have the energy to spread their ideas. The old often don't. That has as much to do with these things as being right or "on to something".
    • the__alchemist 50 minutes ago
      This is my understanding as well. What the article described has been cannon for almost a century, but it may not be an accurate representation, and we still don't have the answers to address Einsteins' concerns.

      (Article quote in question: "But toward the tail end of Einstein’s life, he argued strenuously against the concepts undergirding the emerging field of quantum mechanics, the ideas that are shaking up physics yet again and may lay bare even more of our universe’s mysteries.")

    • ceejayoz 3 hours ago
      Not a physicist, so this may be a dumb question… but do we even know for sure it’s a problem with a solution?
      • KalMann 2 hours ago
        Not a physicist either but my understanding is that is that if you believe that we can discover all the laws of physics that explain how the world operates then it needs to have a solution.

        Like we have formulas describing how gravity works. We can test these formulas by observing the motion of the planets and galaxies. Is this theory true? There's lots of evidence for it so it feels like it's gotta be pretty close to "the truth"

        We also have formulas describing how elementary particles behave. These formulas have been tested to a very high degree of precision so it seems they've got to be close to the truth as well. But if you use both our formulas for gravitation and formulas for elementary particles you can derive a contradiction. So these two theories cannot simultaneously be true. There's got to be something wrong with them.

        I suppose there's the possibility that at a certain point nature simply doesn't follow any laws and you can't possibly make sense of it.

      • tim333 26 minutes ago
        Well nature follows general relativity and quantum mechanics so presumably they can co-exist. We just don't have a mathematically consistent theory as to how.
      • lmm 1 hour ago
        Well, the universe does something with extremely small but extremely heavy objects, unless you think that merely creating that situation will cause the universe to cease to exist.
        • ninkendo 49 minutes ago
          You don’t even need that to understand the tension between QM and GR:

          What is the gravitational field of a particle in a superposition of two different locations? What about when the superposition collapses? Does the gravity field instantly change shape, faster than light?

          The consensus right now is this is so hard to measure we’ll basically never know the answer from just observations. Maybe having a gravitational influence on something at all, collapses the superposition? Maybe if you put the particles in a large enough configuration it’s impossible to maintain superposition? Maybe there’s enough background noise in our particular universe to make such a measurement permanently impossible, and we get by on a technicality? Nobody knows.

          • lmm 9 minutes ago
            Not all interpretations of QM have collapses, which tend to be underdescribed even in purely QM terms.
        • hunterpayne 1 hour ago
          Now consider that the density of an atomic nucleus is oddly similar to the density of a black hole. And this was the path Einstein was following. Too bad you need computers to study it because of all the differential equations.
      • ktallett 2 hours ago
        So we do know that all the tiny interactions like charge of particles etc must work side by side with all the big interactions like gravity as otherwise how would anything as we know it work. However it could as easily be neither are the right way to interpret the world and there is something we are missing, or we are right and we can find a method to combine the theory of the big and the small interactions but we are missing a section. At the end of the day we can't interact in any meaningful way with more than half the matter in the universe (it's proven to exist due to a gravitational pull), so it's clear we can't experience a lot of the universe and we definitely can't explain a lot.

        So yes there is a solution, but do we, as humans, have the ability to come up with it, who knows. I would say it's unlikely.

  • ordu 25 minutes ago
    > Even the greatest minds, such as Einstein, transitioned from disruptor to gatekeeper when quantum mechanics threatened his nostalgic view of the universe

    Just watch Veritasium[1] take on this claim. Eistein claimed that QM in Copenhagen interpretation is non-local. Bohr claimed he proved Einstein wrong. And then came Bell and ruled out local hidden variables, proving the QM is non-local, at least in Copenhagen interpretation. Pity neither Einstein nor Bohr lived to that moment, so we can't know what they would say on that.

    But in any case Einstein was right all the time.

    [1] https://youtu.be/NIk_0AW5hFU

  • grebc 2 hours ago
    They hit the nail on the head in the first paragraph.

    Older people have influence, power, control to direct where resources are allocated.

    No 25yo scientists has the werewithal or experience to challenge that until later in life.

    It’s kind of like asking why old people have all the assets.

  • scarecrowbob 2 hours ago
    I found Thomas Kuhn's "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions" helpful on this topic.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Structure_of_Scientific_Re...

    • readthenotes1 1 hour ago
      I was shocked that the article did not mention Kuhn as the source for the two paradigms. Has he been forgotten already?

      And of course if you haven't read that book, it's insightful and easy

      • ojbyrne 53 minutes ago
        It’s almost like a corollary to the Douglas Adam’s principle referred to in the article - if there’s a theory about social behavior formulated before you’re born, it’s fair game to reformulate it.
  • kulahan 3 hours ago
    Author must not have heard of Nobel Disease - many laureates go on to propose absolutely batshit insane theories. Sounds disruptive to me…
    • nephihaha 2 hours ago
      Ironically the article claims scientists become less radical as they get older. I suppose it depends what you consider radical.
    • ceejayoz 3 hours ago
      They’re usually outside their field of expertise, though.

      It’s like being a billionaire; you stop getting “no, that’s stupid” feedback and it rots your brain.

      • toast0 37 minutes ago
        This happens in lots of different fields. I feel like people need to start developing pseudonyms when they achieve success, so that they still get feedback. Either that, or they have to carefully cultivate a group of no people to hang around and tell them which ideas are stupid.
      • paleotrope 2 hours ago
        When brilliance in one area doesn't translate to another.
  • moomin 2 hours ago
    I desperately want to slap a huge “citation needed” on that first paragraph.
  • ktallett 2 hours ago
    Disruptive work nowadays is not very popular with institutions and doesn't win you grants. What does win grants is plodding along on a same path usually towards some end goal that is the latest buzzword. Those who stay in academia all start aspirational and wish to change the world, but the system sucks it out of them.
    • johnny22 2 hours ago
      nowadays? It's never been popular.
      • ktallett 28 minutes ago
        Yes, as nowadays we have the ability to simulate or experiment theories at a great speed. A century ago it was a lot harder so scepticism made sense as you couldn't easily prove your theory. You feel we should be able to take more risks now, but if anything we take as many or fewer, therefore I fear mavericks have become even less popular.
      • readthenotes1 1 hour ago
        I was surprised that the article did not mention that Einstein was not originally given the Nobel prize for relativity because the Old guard did not like the work...
        • ktallett 31 minutes ago
          A nobel prize was very rarely given for theory, especially one that hadn't been stringently experimented on until the 50's to the -70's.

          The photoelectric effect definitely was more solid to give out the prize on.

          Saying this I think the Nobel prize is becoming less relevant, especially as nowadays one person is rarely the reason advancements are made.